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Deep Thoughts Wine Night - 30 September 2025; theme: 'Californian Wine' at 7 PM ET, 4 PM PT

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  • Go with Austrian wines?

  • I thought we were doing Argentina wines

  • Argentina wines are next week (Wine Night). In two weeks we have Deep Thoughts again.

  • edited February 2021

    Austrian is fine, and helps address the "rut" issue (for some, anyway) stated elsewhere. BTW, Grüner Veltliner is grown in the USA (especially the East) as some have shown previously, I think. But there are other whites available from there as Vin0Vin0 points out, if there are not many local choices. Or you could expand and use examples from Hungary, the USA, Slovakia, and the Czech Republic (good luck getting anything from the latter two countries). It can make a good, quaffable summer sipper, but can't hold a candle to Riesling, but few wines (red or white) do.

  • GV is an interesting grape by name, for its seems to refer to a valley or series of valleys) above Lake Como Italy (Valtellina). Just thought you'd like to know that - if you did not already. :)

  • How about we go for Gruner Veltliner? Yes, it's a white wine but everyone needs a white wine now and then.

  • edited February 2021

    Difficult to find a real high-end GV, but I'll give it a go. I suppose we can obtain from any source (that is, countries other than Republik Österreich (Austria)). There are a few in the US, but you'll have to research same.

  • GV it is then. I have a bottle.... B)

  • edited February 2021

    Just a remark: I have an appointment at 2:45 PM and may be late to the table, and therefore thin on the presentation - unless I am organized the day before. There's also precious little to choose from, but there are a couple of possibilities, including an Alzinger Federspiel Muhlpoint (I think). Domane Wachau as well (Federspiel).

  • Do your best and nobody will complain.

  • I sent out a reminder email just a few minutes ago. Don't forget to chill your bottle.

  • I'll see if I can make it. The appointment is actually 3:45 PST so may be a bit tight.

  • You can always join a bit late. Post info about your bottle ahead of time.

  • Tonight's the night folks.

  • edited February 2021

    Here is the bottle we plan to open tonight, a 2019 Schlosskellerei Gobelsburg Grüner Veltliner from the Kamptal wine region of Austria.

    "Moss, crushed sage and yarrow play alongside green pear in this fresh, vivid wine. The slender, crisp palate adds a note of salty yeast and boosts the flavors with lemony freshness. This is quintessential Grüner—gorgeous, slender and refreshing."

    Some history of the winery.....

    The very early history of the castle Gobelsburg and its vineyards is an unwritten story as with many similar estates in Austria. Archeological excavations in one of our vineyards (Grub) and during the extension of the chateau’s vaults have released many traces of settlements in eolithic, bronze and iron age, the Roman empire and early medieval periods.

    1074
    The castle was first mentioned in a contract dated 1074 in relation to Azzo de Gobatsburich, Earl of Kuenring. The property remained in the possession of the Kuenring family until the end of the 12th century when it changed hands to the Felsberg-Falkenstein family as a dowry for the last lady Kuenring. In the 15th century the Habsburgs, the reigning Dukes of Austria took possession of the estate. During the flourishing regimen of the Habsburg, then German Emperors, the fortified castle Gobatsburg was torn down to be replaced by a Renaissance manor house. It changed hands again only 100 years later.

    When Stift Zwettl, a Cistercian monastery, was founded by Earl Hadmar I of Kuenring in 1137 the monks were bestowed with forests and land around Zwettl in the heart of Waldviertel as well as with vineyards and arable land in Kammern near Langenlois and the rivers Kamp and Danube. The oldest known vineyard in the region is mentioned in this deed of donation, ie the Allerheiligenstiftung.

    1440
    Between 1074 and 1740 there were as many as 19 different families on the estate and castle Gobelsburg. The last aristocratic owner Freiherr Achaz Ehrenreich von Hohenfenfeld initiated the alterations of the Renaissance manor house into a handsome Baroque chateau in the first half of the 18th century.

    The basic structure – two-storied 4 wings around a courtyard – stayed as it was. Renaissance features can still be seen today with the arcade in the courtyard and the vaulted Sala Terrena. The main modifications made were very delicate Baroque ornaments on the three facades and huge tiled stoves thematically harmonized with stucco and painted ceilings in most of the rooms.

    1740
    The small terraced garden was most likely added at the same time based on the style of the decorative watchtowers and box hedges.

    The reconstruction that was planned and carried out by the famous architect Josef Munggenast (Melk, Zwettl, Altenburg) caused severe financial difficulties for the family Ehrenreich-Hohenfeld, hence why in 1740 the son of Baron Achaz entered the monastery of Zwettl in hopes that they would take over the property along with its debts.

    In 1784 the two estates of Stift Zwettl, Kammern and Gobelsburg, were merged and began operating as “Schloss Gobelsburg Weingut des Cistercienser Stift Zwettl” from that point on. Since then Gobelsburg has become one of the leading and most distinguished wineries in Austria.

    1918-1945
    Between World War I and II the chateau was (mis) used as a summer youth camp, during World War II French POWs were quartered at the estate. No major damages occurred during the war. However, during the following Soviet occupation the officers made a sport of shooting into the front facade. Today the chateau has once again been restored to its prior glory and is a popular venue for cultural events, as well as family and company functions.

    1958
    Father Bertrand Baumann put the restoration of the estate, its reputation, as well as its return to prominence at the forefront during his time at the winery. He brought Cistercian tradition to Gobelsburg with the introduction of the Burgundian vine Pinot Noir achieving outstanding results despite the laborious and complex cultivation the varietal requires. He also established Gobelsburger Messwein (altar wine) as an Austrian classic. This particular wine is a light and crisp Grüner Veltliner that is produced in strict accordance to ecclesiastical regulations in concern to vineyard and cellar techniques, ie organically sensitive work in the vineyards, no chaptalization or additives. Father Bertrand served as Abbot of Stift Zwettl from 1980 until 1994 when he finally resigned due to age. Altabt” Father Bertrand is still proudly and joyfully inspecting the vineyards and cellars here today.

    1996
    In January 1996 Schloss Gobelsburg – the estate and its vineyards – were acquired by Willi Bründlmayer and Michael Moosbrugger through a long-term lease. Today the estate and winery are managed by Michael.

    Some of Austria’s finest vineyards belong to Schloss Gobelsburg, these being the vineyards on the terraced Heiligenstein and Gaisberg as well as the hollow site between the two hills, the Grub.

    The terroir of these hills and hollow sites are very diverse – each exemplifying their own unique nuances. The hills have porous rocky soil containing mica-schist and gneiss, as well as basalt in some places on the Heiligenstein. The soil within the hollow is fertile loess 4 to 8 meters deep. On the adjoining lower sites there is loess and loam mixed with some brown and sandy soil. The Gobelsburg plateau which is south of the château, has vineyards that rest upon pebbles and gravel that was transported here by the “early Danube.” Additionally, there is a topsoil of about 0.5 to 1.0 meter consisting of black and loamy soil and loess.

  • Anton Bauer 2019 Rosenberg Grüner Veltliner (Wagram)
    Wine Enthusiast Review:
    A flinty glint of reduction hovers on the nose, underneath that subtle hints of yeast and pear appear. The palate then comes in with pithy notion that lends structure to this generous, rounded wine. A lovely lemon brightness seems to reveal layers of yeasty texture. This will take some time to come out of its shell. Drink 2022–2032. (Yes, we’re drinking this a year early)

    Winery Info:
    When Anton Bauer takes something on, he does so wholeheartedly. When he took over the winery from his parents in 1992, it had only 3.2 hectares of vines. The quality fanatic now cultivates around 35 hectares of vineyards in and around Feuersbrunn. Anton Bauer's work is defined by the combination of deeply rooted commitment to tradition and openness for new mehtods.The vintner's thoughts and actions have been visionary from beginning. Next to the classic Wagram grape varieties Grüner Veltliner, Riesling and Roter Veltliner, he also invested increased efforts in red wine production - something that initially met with scepticism. Despite this, his Pinot Noir, Cabernet Sauvignon, and aptly namend "Cuvée Legendär" now count among Austria's top red wines. The white wines are in the same league.

  • Very nice. Oh, say hello to Lego, a three legged cat. It’s not only Cat Tuesday, it’s also #FatTuesday.

  • Our Wine for tonight. Tonight we dine for tomorrow we fast! (Lent starts on Ash Wednesday)

  • Here are mine


    ine

  • Lots of cut and paste but it works for information!

    Martin Mittelbach is a Wachau insider with an outsider’s perspective. He is the fifth generation of Mittelbachs to run the historical Tegernseerhof, an estate that goes further back than 1000 years. Despite the estate’s historical merit you couldn’t find a much more progressive winemaker with his own set of standards and way of thinking in this region. Martin took over the estate at a very young age and immediately changed the way things were done. As you could imagine, there was some friction with his father who preferred to make wines more on the sweeter side. Today, you would be hard pressed to find a more dry and straight style in the Wachau. The grapes are harvested and sorted rigorously to take out any botrytis grapes and then vinified and raised in stainless steel. They are harvested with no botrytis to keep the wines focused and tense. His wines are like his personality: intense, focused and highly intellectual. These laser beams are as far away from the often baroque style that can be found in this region. In every level his wines excel and can stand tall next to any of the greatest producers in Austria.

    Lay of the Land
    A UNESCO World Heritage site, Austria’s Wachau gorge is home to arguably the most prestigious winegrowing region in the country, and its most visually stunning. The eastern border is west of Vienna by about an hour drive and begins in a town called Unterloiben. It runs through the river gorge thirteen or so kilometers ending in Spitz, a town that marks the far western end of the winegrowing areas along the river.

    Though one of the coolest winegrowing regions in Austria (not only in temperature, but also in vibe), the Wachau is located in an area strongly affected by opposing climatic influences. Warm Pannonian winds move in from the east and collide with colder Atlantic and Alpine winds insulated by the wilderness surrounding the gorge, which creates a tug-of-war of extremes between day and nighttime temperatures during the summer and fall. Much less than in the past, before the hydroelectric dams were installed and slowed its vigorous pace, the Danube River regulates temperatures and mitigates some risk of spring frost. Tegernseerhof’s vineyards are all located on the far eastern end of the Wachau gorge in its most warm zone, however still considered a cold climate wine region.

    On the steeply terraced hills principally composed of Gföhler gneiss (orthogneiss) and other ancient igneous and metamorphic bedrock formations with a thin, gravelly decomposition of the bedrock itself is the kind of stressful environment where Riesling thrives best. By contrast, Austria’s most popular (and common) white wine grape, Gruner Veltliner, typically grows lower down the slopes on more löss (also spelled loess, or löess) dominated soils mixed with river sand and alluvium. Grüner Veltliner needs to be coddled to find its glory, and the nutrient rich and high water retentive qualities of löss are perfect.

  • Wow! Everyone is doing a fantastic job posting info and pictures.

  • edited February 2021

    Dinner is served. Pork loin and potato / sauerkraut mix. Lynn brought the salad.

  • Mine for the night - no Rick

    Weingut Alzinger Gruner Veltliner Durnstein Federspiel 2019
    Gruner Veltliner from Wachau Austria

    Leo Alzinger is located in Unterloiben, just across the street from Knoll. Leo owns parcels in two of the great vineyards in this part of the river valley: Loibenberg and Steinertal. Loibenberg is a towering, terraced hillside, while the diminutive (5.5 hectare) Steinertal is hidden and maintains a cooler micro-climate. On the terraced vineyards of both sites, riesling is cultivated on the higher, more primary rock rich parcels while grüner veltliner is cultivated on the lower, silty, loess based parcels. Harvest at Alzinger happens later than some of Leo’s neighbors in Unterloiben, something he attributes to old vines and the specific exposition of his parcels. The extra time on the vine doesn’t increase sugar levels, Leo says, but rather pushes physiological ripeness to greater balance. Alzinger crushes whole cluster with a short maceration, then allows the must to settle for 24 hours, dropping any green tannins out. Tasting the wines next to some of the other Wachau greats, it becomes apparent that elegance and pristine fruit is what Leo looks for in winemaking, rather than opulence. Alzinger’s wines are never forceful or assertive; they are instead amazingly sanguine and calmly transparent.

    _Waushau _-  An Austrian valley with a picturesque landscape formed by the Danube river. It is one of the most prominent tourist destinations of Lower Austria, located midway between the towns of Melk and Krems that also attracts "connoisseurs and epicureans" for its high-quality wines. It is 36 kilometres (22 mi) in length and was already settled in prehistoric times. A well-known place and tourist attraction is Dürnstein, where King Richard the Lionheart of England was held captive by Duke Leopold V of Austria and Styria. The architectural elegance of its ancient monasteries (Melk Abbey and Göttweig Abbey), castles and ruins combined with the urban architecture of its towns and villages, and the cultivation of vines as an important agricultural produce are the dominant features of the valley.
    The Wachau was inscribed as "Wachau Cultural Landscape" in the UNESCO List of World Heritage Sites in recognition of its architectural and agricultural history, in December 2000.

    ESTATE - TRADITION THROUGH INNOVATION
    BENTZ DER ALDINGER came to Fellbach in 1492 from the small city of Aldingen with the intention of cultivating grape vines.
    His arrival would set the foundation for what is today the region's oldest winegrowing estate. Almost 500 years later, in 1955, Gerhard Aldinger married Anneliese Aldinger (neé Pflüger) and decided to convert his father-in-law's existing cooperage into a full- scale winery. _
    The 1973 acquisition of Untertürkheimer Gips marked another critical milestone in the estate's history. Following the vineyard's purchase, the word GIPS quickly established itself with a new meaning in the region: distinctive, mineral-rich wines unlike any produced here before.

    GERT JOACHIM ALDINGER TAKES THE HELM
    1992 – Building on 500 years of wine growing tradition, Gert Joachim Aldinger takes the helm.
    Dubbed the 'King of the Kappelberg,' Gert Joachim Aldinger's decision to plant international grape varieties and radically reduce yield broke new ground in the region.
    15 years later, the estate is among Württemberg's finest. And like the prized vines on the Fellbach slopes, Gert Aldinger's sons Hansjörg and Matthias are aging nicely into the second generation.
    This seamless transition is a tremendous point of pride for both the family and the estate.

  • Look like everybody is. pretty much, sticking with the Gruners, tonight. Not a bad strategy.

    There is not a single Austrian wine in my house. Tonight, in fact, I'll be finishing off that Chianti Classico that I opened, last night. In the spirit of fusion dining I'll have it with a tostada made with roasted chicken that is also leftover.

    Life is good.

  • edited February 2021

    Looks like everyone is going with the traditional Austrian version so I might as well mix things up as I do like to wander a bit. Mine is an American version of Gruner from Sta. Rita Hills, CA, Fiddlehead Cellars 2014 vintage. Plenty of lemon pith on the nose and the tongue with vibrant acidity. There's also some nice stone fruit giving a bit of roundness and a touch of beeswax for a nice mouthfeel. As this warms up it's getting a slight bit richer with some ripe melon on the back end. This paired really well with broiled salmon and a nice salad.

    One odd thing, the Fiddlehead Cellars website says their first vintage of this Gruner is 2015.

  • EMark, don’t you have a white wine lying around? Surely Peggy wouldn’t mind....

    Speaking of wine though, we are now moving to a red, this 2016 Cabernet Franc from southern Oregon. Giving it some time in the decanter first however.

    Regarding the two bottles we opened, they were slightly different but more similar than most comparisons between the same varietals.

  • 1st pour - Man, what a nose, jasmine, stone fruit - peach & apricot, lemongrass and more herbal notes. The palate is absolutely gorgeous with stone fruit up fruit, followed by apple, peach and wonderful savory herbal notes. This is wonderfully viscous and porous at the same time allowing everything to meld and at the same time remain distinct. It slides to the back of the tongue effortlessly and remains for 30-45 seconds until you can't stand it anymore and calls for another quaff. Excellent - 92 points =

    P.S. - This to Gruner what the '19 Kono SB was to NZ SavBlanc.

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